doctor13 - 06:45am May 2, 1997 EST (#154 of 160)

"Jewish Cemetery Desecration in Croatia." Post #145

Why should anyone be surprised that history is repeating itself? There are articles which go back as far as 1991 writing about Croatia's fascist rebirth. "Echoes of fascism at Croatian wedding," (October 7, 1991, The Daily Telegraph) . . . "While their President (Tudjman) was ordering mobilisation in a midnight television broadcast, two young Croatian lawyers were giving the Nazi raised arm salute at a rancous wedding reception. As the band played patriotic songs, a well-dressed young man rose from his table and gave the salute which was adopted by Croatia's puppet fascist regime during the 1939-45 war." From the Associated Press, August 7, 1991, "Fascist Salute Heard at Croatian Guardsmen's funeral. As the flag-draped coffins of four Croat guardsmen were lowered into their graves Wednesday, hundreds of mourners chanted fascist salutes unheard in Yugoslavia since Croatia's Nazi puppet regime collapsed at the end of World War II.

I repeat. These articles are not from 1941, they are from 1991! From the Jerusalem Post of 8 February 1996, "Jewish activist to Croatian leader Slavko Goldstein, Don't bury Ustashe guards near Holocaust memorial . . . You now want to transfer the bones of those murderers to Jasenoviac, (the Auschwitz of the Balkans), so they lie next to the bones of those they had murdered in a joint memorial ground, Goldstein said. "I will not allow you to do it." His pleas fell on deaf ears, in this country and around the world. From the World Jewish Congress, Decemer 1996, "In the presence of Catholic priests and senior state officials, the Croatian town of Omis has re-interred 100 Ustasha soldiers next to those who fell resisting the Nazi-supported World War II Fascist regime." A U.S. colonel accused Croats of being racists who 'kill people for the color of their skins'." -- Army Col.Gregory Fontenot, The American commander of NATO forces in northeastern Bosnia. (The Washington Times, 29 Dec 1995).

"A British soldiers dies after being beaten by Croats," (Reuters dispatch). "Male rape has been the scare-story of choice along the Croatian coast ever since a young soldier claimed to have been sexually assaulted by a gang of Croatian men a month ago." (Julian Borger, The Guardian, July 29, 1996.)

"But you can understand Croatia best by saying flatly that if there is one place in the world where a statue of Adolph Hitler would be revered, it would be in Zagreb." (Edward Pearce, The Evening Standard (London), August 7, 1995.)

"German Bundeswehr forces were greeted with the "straight-armed fascist salute . . . an expression of solidarity dating back to the alliance between Croatian fascists and the Nazis. (Newsweek, 6 January 1997).

Thanks to our administration and a biased media, the fascists are back, stronger than ever.

doctor13 - 07:44am May 2, 1997 EST (#155 of 160)

(for fair use only)

THE LAST SERMON OF FRIEDRICH GRIESENDORF, A German Clergyman, reprinted and translated from the Eversburg newspaper, Eversburg, Germany.

Friedrich Griesendorf, who died in 1958, was a very educated man. He was at one time a court clergyman for the German Kaiser, Wilhelm II. After World War II, he was a pastor in the Eversburg church parish where a camp of Serbian prisoners of war was located. Before retiring, he dedicated these lines to his German parishioners:

"Our country lost the war. The English, Americans and Russians won. Maybe they had much better equipment, larger armies, better leadership. In reality, it was an explicit material victory. They took the victory. However, here among us is one nation that won another more beautiful victory, a victory of the soul, a victory of the heart and honesty, a victory of peace and Christian love. THEY ARE THE SERBS. We knew them earlier, some a little and some not at all. But we all knew what we did in their homeland. We killed hundreds of the Serbs who defended their country for one of our soldiers who represented the occupier -- the oppressor. And not only that, we looked favorably when others shot at Serbs from all sides; The Croatian (Ustashi), the Italians, Albanians, Bulgarians and Hungarians. Yet we knew that among us in the prisoner of war camps were 5,000 Serbian officers, who earlier were the elite of the society and, who now resembled living skeletons, exhausted and spent from hunger. We knew that among the Serbs smoldered the belief 'He who does not revenge is not sanctified'."

"We are truly afraid of the revenge by these Serbian martyrs. We were afraid that after our capitulation they would do what we did to them. We imagined murder, plunder, rape, demolition and destruction of our homes. However, what happened? When the barbed wires were torn down and 5,000 Serbian skeletons found themselves free in our midst, those skeletons caressed our children. Only now can we understand why our greatest poet, Goethe, studied the Serbian language. Only now can we comprehend why the last word for Bismark, on his deathbed, was -- 'SERBIA.' That kind of victory is more sublime than a material victory. It seems to me that only the Serbs could win such a victory, being brought up in their St. Sava's spirit and epic poetry, which our Goethe loved so much. This victory will live for centuries in the souls of us Germans. I want to dedicate my last clergyman's sermon to that victory and the Serbs who won it." -- Friedrick Griesendorf.

"After the war, the German government erected a monument in Eversburg, Germany, to honor and pay tribute to these 5,000 Serbian prisoners of war."

Does the description given by the German Clergyman, Friedrich Griesendorf, in any way resemble the vilified description that we in the United States have been led to believe of the Serbian people?

walterbk - 11:25am May 2, 1997 EST (#156 of 160)

Dear Marko P.

In a previous posting you asked me how it is that I understood what is written in one of the references I provided you - The Chetnik Movement of Draza Mihailovich (Belgrade, 1979).

You are absolutely correct in saying that this book is not written in english. In fact it was published in Cyrillic. Since I have always been interested in history, european in particular, I made it a point to collect books on the subject even if written in foreign languages. For my own interest, I had this book translated about 10 years ago by a Notary Public - who by the way was of Serbian background.

You also commented that you do not trust the conents of this book because it was written during the time of the communist regime in Yugoslavia. Yet how do you justify your reliance on these same "unrealiable communist sources" for the "truths" you are advocating? - when they serve your purpose that is.

You cite world encyuclopedias as your sources - yet the information in them is from that same communist Yugoslav regime that you find so unreliable.

While you question this source - you have made no comment about the information I offered you - i.e. the 10 points of the 1941 Serbian Chetnik Memorandum that outlines this movement's agenda for territorial expansion and systematic ethnic cleansing of all non-Serbs from conquered territories. ______________________________________________

By the way, Mr. Dorich has yet to answer the question I posed to him about 20 postings ago:

Mr. Dorich how many members are there in your SAVA organization, and is this a registered organization?

doctor13 - 11:45am May 2, 1997 EST (#157 of 160)

Dear Mr. Rothenthal. In the event the letter posted below has not come to your attention, I am sure you and your readers will find it interesting.

Subj: Jewish Group Confirms Anti-Serb Media.



Dear Fellow Jews,

We the Jewish members of the Belgrade chapter of the Jewish Serbian Friendship society, dedicated to the ongoing development of friendly relations between Jews and Serbs wherever they live together) are taking this initiative to address other Jewish organizations and their leadership.

We protest the involvement of Jewish organizations, insitutions and leading Jewish personalities in the world for their condemnations and attacks on the Serbian people in Serbia, Montenegro and the former Yugoslav republics.

It is with a deep sense of regret and irony that we learn of widespread Jewish support of the distorted and too often patently untrue depiction of the Serbian role in the civil war in Bosnia. We particularly object to and protest Jewish support of the foundationless, inhumane and cruel economic measures taken against the population of Serbia and Montenegro. Still more disturbing is the active role taken by Jews in support of military intervention and attacks against Serbs fighting against overwhelming odds for their political rights and their basic survival.

It is incomprehensible to us that Jewish insitutions and individual Jews, who have themselves for thousands of years been the victims of prejudice, exile and annihilation, would participate in a racist pogrom of the same nature against the Serbs - nothing can exuse Jewish involvement in such a campaign.

Not even during the Nazi era, when the great majority of German people supported Hitler, was there such an organized and systematic propaganda campaign against Nazism or particularly the German people as there is in the world today against Serbia and the Serbian people. Most importantly, Nazism constituted a bona fide threat to the entire world: philosophycally, politically and militarily. It was no contrivance of Madison Avenue and international political manipulation, as is the case today with Serbs. It is yet the the greatest of ironies that it was fascist manipulations, in Germany, grotesquely similar to those of Nazism, which served as the impetus for the break up of Yugoslavia, set the stage for the ensuing civil war and the tone of the geopolitical agenda which today dominates Western perception of this tragedy. These perceptions have been profoundly enhanced by modern media technology alliances of political and economic convenience and the woeful lack of historical knowledge, endemic in Western populations, particularly in America. Millions of people worldwide, well meaning people, have been manipulated; Jews among them.

To be continued

doctor13 - 11:49am May 2, 1997 EST (#158 of 160)

Jewish Group Confirms Anti-Serb Media, continued.

From 1941 through the end of World War II they were, alongside Jews, the victims of the Holocaust under the Nazis, the Ustashi and their Muslim allies under the leadership of Hitler's trusted crony, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, El-Husseini. Today, as the Serbs are again threatened life and limb by a new generation of Fascists, Nazis and Muslim fundamentalists, and the racist nationalism of Croatia under the anti-Semitic leadership of Franjo Tudjman, they are labeled as "agressors". Confronted by these old enemies who attack them in full regalia, replete with all the traditional symbols: Swastika, Shahevnitza, Star & Crescent, the Serbs are fighting for their biological survival on land that has been for a millenium their own.

The entire history of the Serbs is one of struggle for survival and freedom. They live on lands which for centuries now have been the cross-roads between great and often conflicting powers; the place where their borders meet: the Christian church of the East and West - Orthodox and Catholic, the Great Schism, the Muslim drive West, pitted against the German drive east.

For many hundreds of years the Serbs have stood, in their fight for independence, as an unbridgeable obstacle to both these great currents, the rivers of blood swelling the shores of Serbian land with the valiantly spent lives of their sons and daughters - generation to generation.

In World Wars I and II the Serbs again carried the greatest burden and suffered the greatest losses in the "allied" fight against tyranny in the Balkans. So often alone in their struggle for liberation, they have always respected the rights and freedoms of others. This was the principle guiding them, to live in freedom, Jews who fled here in the great migrations from Spain, during the inquisition; Jews who in exile here found a home and equallity and friendship with Serbian people.

We the authors of this letter are the living Jewish legacy of that tradition. Ask us if you would know the truth about the war here. Ask any Jew living in this foresaken land, you will be hard pressed to hear otherwise. It is no accident that the Serbs, alone among the Yugoslav people, along with us, were the victims of Hitler, Pavelic, Husseini and their Balkan Death Machine in WWII.

Tragically, history is repeating itself in the Balkans, with all the traditional factors in play - each recgnizable on the earmarked pages of time. Yet, as we study the great text of history in continuum, we find that in ensuing years since the Holocaust, additions have been made, new footnotes attached, new alliances established, new methods applied in this "age of information" which amplify that sadtradition.

The propaganda of Goebbels has become the Mega-propaganda of CNN and the western media, in which the Serbs have become the new Jews in this modern, high flying effort to bridge the "unbridgeable obstacle" to new and greater interests.

In this great defamation and destruction of Serbs, nothing has lent greater authority than the force of Jewish moral support. This is the crowning propaganda achievement, the jewel in the crown atop the New World Order's Tower of Babel. Witting or unwitting, Jewish enlistment in this campaign is a grim testimony to the breadth and depth, the sheer reach of the New World Order - of the power they wield over the material and minds of men. (To be continued) doctor13 - 11:58am May 2, 1997 EST (#159 of 160)

Jewish Group Confirms Anti-Serb Media (continued)

Certainly, it is difficult for Jews in the world to oppose or perhaps have full insight into the politics of the governments under which they live. Though it would be to their ultimate advantage to distance themselves, they perhaps need not to do so at all cost. But at no cost should Jews permit themselves to become an instrument, or worst of all, the secret weapon employed against a people fighting for its survival, independence and freedom. This can never be of any advantage to the Jews and is beneath our dignity; indeed, it is to our detriment and dishonor.

The Jews have survived in the midst of others by remaining united and prepared to sacrifice in the name of what we believe: the right and the just. Time has shown that those beliefs were universal and lasting. It would be unworthy of the great Jewish tradition for us to find ourselves for very long numbered among those who today support agression against the rights and freedom of Serbian people.

The Jewish-Serbian Friendship Society Belgrade

Dr. Nikola Rot, Professor of Neurology, University of Belgrade Dr. Andreja Preger Professor em., University of Arts, Belgrade Dr Marko Anaf Professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Belgrade Alexander Mosic, Chemical Engineer, Admisor on Training UNIDO, India Colonel Majer Altavac, Attorney, Colonel JNA, retired Enrico Josif, Composer, Professor of Musical Composition, Member of Serbian Academy of Arts and Science Dr Klara Mandic Secretary, Jewish-Serbian Friendship Society, Belgrade David Moss, Ambassador at Large, Jewish-Serbian Friendship Society

StSava - 01:11pm May 2, 1997 EST (#160 of 160)

To Walterbk,

I am happy to answer your question about the SAVA organization. It was founded by David Vuich in 1986 with a charter membership of 2,500 members. Our funding this past eleven years is by contributions from Serbs throughout this nation.

SAVA, named to honor the first Archbishop and founder of the Serbian Orthodox church a thousand years ago, was registered as a lobby in 1987 in Washington DC with all of the appropriate papers.

In 1991, I became the president of the organization and have continued to be reelected each year by the membership. We continue with the valuable work envisioned by Mr. Vuich who continues to make a valuable contribution to the organization. We continue to support the goals and aspirations of his founding board of directors to defend the proud heritage and name of the Serbian people and to give them a voice in American politics. Our membership is open only to American citizens of Serbian heritage. This aspect of our charter was deliberate in keeping the organization from being infiltrated from former Yugoslav Communists emigrating to the United States. Although I am in California, not Washington DC, our national address is that of the Serbian National Federation in Pittsburgh, an organization of American Serbs founded in 1929.

The American Srbobran, a part of the Serb National Federation, is the newspaper for whom I write, it was founded in 1901. The Serb Federation has also selected me this year as their Keynote Speaker for their annual event in Pittsburgh in July.

As for our membership, that information is currently not being made public. This is not because we wish to be a secret organization, far from it, this was the suggestion of the FBI in 1991 after a number of our members received numerous death threats. I continue, even to this day, to receive such threats, the very reason why we no longer list our telephone number and only make our e-mail address available for public contact.

What is obvious in your question is the implicit implication that SAVA lacks legitimacy as though the Serbian people do not deserve the right to defend themselves, to organize, or to be heard, regardless of the forum.

I remind you that if we were 10,000 or 10 the important work of our organization and its staff of dedicated researchers and scholars have done more for the Serbian cause in this war than any other Serbian organization you care to name in the United States. My recent award of “The Order of St. Sava” the highest award given to a lay person in the Serbian church by the Holy Sinod of Serbian Orthodox bishops is proof enough for me that I am leading my people in the right direction.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to introduce this information about the SAVA organization on this forum, adding it to our other postings would have seemed peculiar, particularly to an individual such as yourself and Mr. AVoice who continue to seek reasons to discredit me.

Wm. Dorich, President of SAVA—Serbian American Voters Alliance

StSava - 08:52pm May 2, 1997 EST (#161 of 195)

Doctor 13,

You left out a very important point in your Jewish/Serbian Friendship piece. During the Spanish Civil War in which the Jews fled Spain, they were welcomed with open arms by the Serbian people. The oldest Jewish choir in the world is not in Israel, its in Belgrade. I am very proud of our history and our hospitality with the Jews, I am disappointed that the ignorant Jew spits in our face today.

About 40,000 Jews lost their lives during the Holocaust in Yugoslavia, however, few people know that about 26,000 Jews were saved mostly by the Serbs who hid them with their own families, those who were caught were killed right along with the Jews they were hiding. At the end of the war about 12,000 of these surviving Jews went to Israel. Ask those Jews about the Serbian people. How arrogantly people like Philip Cohen author of Serbian's Secret War, or Roy Gutman author of Witness to Genocide, made no effort whatsoever to interview the Yugoslav Jews for their trashy pieces of historical revisionism about this war.

Wm. Dorich