aponine - 07:18am Apr 24, 1997 EST (#65
doctor13 4/23/97 10:42pm The point is--and it's a very simple one--that given that Croatia is a Catholic country, and because some Croats (who are Catholic) had an alliance with the Nazi party, there was inevitably a Catholic presence involved in the murk. How do you make the grand leap from Croatian priests to the Vatican? This is starting to sound like hysteria. Is your hatred for Germany just as immense? It was Germany, after all that provided Croatian fascists with the means and circumstances to carry out their plans.
This is not to say that there wasn't some Vatican element involved. But just because somebody wrote a book about it doesn't make it the truth. Furthermore, if you dig deep enough, you'd probably discover that fascists had alot more sympathizers around the world than is generally known--Catholic and otherwise.
sailord - 09:25am Apr 24, 1997 EST (#66
ALL EXTREMISTS MUST BE KILLED!!
StSava - 11:56am Apr 24, 1997 EST (#67
As a two time-victim of what is today called 'ancient hatreds' I lost 17 members of my family who were burned to death in a Serbian Orthodox church in the village of Vojnic in 1942. In this war I lost the last 5 remaining relatives to more Croatian fascism. Four of these individuals were found with their throats slashed, months after the August, 1995 Croatian offensive in which 200,000 Serbs were forced to flee the Krajina, the single largest ethnic cleansing in this war and the single largest military offensive in Europe since the Holocaust. The last relative to die was an eight-year-old by the name of Mila. As an orphan of these blood lust, she was taken to Belgrade where she continued to suffer as a diabetic. For the past two years, international humanitarian goons refused medicine to the Serbs and this young child died this year. Died of a simple lack of insulin.
As for the Vatican, it was the most guilty in WWII as more than 1,500 Roman Catholic priests who participated in the Ustashi and who murdered Serbs and Jews with their own hands, escaped to Argentina with false passports, obtained from the Vatican and Fr. Draganovic, the notorious criminal priest. None of those priests were brought to justice. There seems to be an international effort to rehabilitate these criminal priests.
The leader of this criminal enterprise was the 'Butcher of the Balkans' in that war, Ante Pavelic. He escaped to Argentina with a passport from the Vatican, too, and he was dressed as a priest.
After arriving in Argentina, Pavelic became the Security Advisor to Juan Paron who then issued 35,000 visas to Croatian criminals who sought to escape justice along with these priests.
Mr. Rosenthal is absolutely correct to expose the effort of these criminals who today carry out their goal of WWII. Even Dinko Sakic, the man who ran Jasenovac returned from exile to become the Security Advisor to Franjo Tudjman.
Allow me to utilize this space to give you just a brief list of some of those Criminal Priests that are now being defended.
ARSAMOVIC, Dr. ANTUN Catholic bishop of Djakovo. Decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic. Used terror to force Orthodox Serbs to convert to Catholicism. Took over the Serbian Orthodox churches in his jurisdictional area and converted them to Catholic churches. He ordered many of the Orthodox churche destroyed such as those in Bracevci, Major, Poucje, Depsin, Tenje, Dalj, Markusica, Kapelna, Kucanci, Budimci, Poganovci, Bijelo Brdo, Borovo Selo, Trpinje, Bobota, Pacetin, Brsadin, Cepin, Martinci Cepinski, Trnjani, Klokocevik, Topolje, and Brod na Savi. He followed the directives in the testament “The Return to the Faith of our Fathers,” written and published by St. Jeronimo in Zagreb which was under the direct control of Archbishop Stepinac.
ASTALOS, JOSIP Catholic curate in Dalj and Osijek. Considered a Croatian intellectual. Participated in the sadistic tortures of Serbs in Dalj and Erdut. During the night, he arrested women, took them to a basement, and forced them to completely undress. Organized several Ustasha killing bands. Personally arrested the first 25 Serbs in Dalj, torturing them for several days, then killed them all. An extreme sadist. Decorated by Fascist Ante Pavelic.
BANDIC, Fra BRANRO Franciscan priest in Derventa. Personally took a band of Ustasha killers to the Serbian village of Hrvacani where he had 120 Serbs arrested. All were taken to Banja Luka where they were tortured. All 120 were then slaughtered. Fra Bandic participated personally in the killings.
BERROVIC, Fra Dr. PETAR Head of the Catholic deans in Drnish. Personally participated in the slaughter of Serbs in Knin and Drnish. He was also present during the infamous slaughter of Serbs in the Serbian Orthodox Church at Glina, known as the Glina massacre.
StSava - 12:02pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#68
MORE CRIMINAL PRIESTS
BILOBRK, Dr. VLADO Catholic curate in Metkovic. Called on all Croats to use pick-axes, hoes, and scythes to slaughter Serbs, because they weren’t worth wasting Croatian bullets on. On April 27, 1941 he was one of the first Croatian clerics to organize the massacres of Serbs. With his band of killers, he slaughtered hundreds of them on the bank of the Neretva River and, had their bodies thrown into the water. At the end of 1943, on his insistence, 107 women, children, and old men were slaughtered in the villages of Sipka, Cilum and Pepsko Blato. Insisting that all Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia must be executed for fear if they were simply expelled, they would return to their homes. Dr. Vlado was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
BLAZEVIC, GRGA Catholic priest in Bosanski Novi where he organized a concentration camp for Serbs and made himself commander of it. Many Serbs who were arrested were slaughtered in this camp on his orders. He insisted that he was doing what Archbishop Stepinac wanted and expected of him. For his work on behalf of the “Croatian cause” he was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
BRALO, BOZIDAR Catholic priest in the St. Joseph church in Sarajevo. Organized the slaughter of 180 Serbs on the Alipasa Bridge. After killing them, he danced the Croatian national dance, the Circle Dance, around their bodies before their bodies were thrown into the river. He organized a large number of Moslems from Sarajevo into slaughtering bands. These Moslem groups were responsible for the brutal deaths of thousands of Serbs in the area of Sarajevo. Bralo also murdered thousands of Serbs in the concentration camp Jasenovac. He was a member of the Ustasha Parliament, together with Archbishop Stepinac. Personally slaughtered Serbs in the villages of Sabalj, Marsic-Gaj, Piskavica, Ponira, Biljevina, Kozara mountain, Sanski Most, Kamengrad and Grmec. Decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
BRKAN, Fra IVO Franciscan priest from Koraca (Bosnia) who was responsible for the arrest of about 500 Serbs who were taken to the concentration camps in Luzane, Muratovac, and Derventa. From there, they were taken to the camp in Slavonski Brod where they were brutally tortured. None of the innocents ever returned home.
BUJANOVIC, JOLE Catholic priest who was the director of the Catholic parishes in the Lika and Gacka areas. Slaughtered Serbs indiscriminantly, then pillaged their properties. Organized Ustasha “storm” units, consisting of the worst dregs of the Croatian criminal element, who were sent to slaughter Serbs throughout the province of Lika. Insisted that no Serb must survive in the Croatian state. Insisted that that was the aim of His Holiness, the Pope. As late as February 1945, he hanged 60 Serbs in Gospic. He was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
CULINA, Fra ANSELMO Catholic priest who was personally killing inmates of Jasenovac. He committed all of his murders with a small knife that he liked to show to his victim before killing them. He carried this knife with him at all times, even when holding church services for the Croat soldiers in the camp. Decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
DJURIC, ANTE Catholic priest in Divusa. Chief of the Ustasha Police in Dvor na Uni. Organized bands of killers and sent them to various Serb villages to slaughter the men, women, and children. He instructed them specifically not to spare women and children. After the killings, he absolved all of the murderers of their sins. He was an extreme sadist. He would arrest Serbs, locking them up in his stable, where he tortured them for hours before killing them. He insisted from the church pulpit that the Serbian question in Croatia could only be solved with the “steel broom” (the gun). In his journal, he noted that on April 14, 1941 (four days after the establishment of The Independent State of Croatia) he went to Zagreb to ask for instructions from Stepinac and then, he continued in his journal:
StSava - 12:04pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#69
criminal priests III
“I met with the leaders of all the surrounding parishes, and we agreed what we need to do.” The following day, he arrested a number of Serbian women, forced them to undress and ride naked on horses through the Croatian villages in his area. Then he slaughtered them. He was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
DRAGANOVIC, Dr. RUNOSLAV Catholic priest and professor at the Catholic Theological University of Zagreb. This Croatian Catholic priest would become the head strategist within the Vatican, called the “Ratline,” Fr. Draganovic was instrumental in helping thousands of Nazi criminals escape Croatia after the war to the West and to Argentina where they all escaped prosecution. The criminals included fascist Ante Ante Pavelic and his Minister of the Interior Andrea Artukovich, who were ultimately responslble for the murders of nearly one million human beings in The Independent State of Croatia. He was the mastermind of the Ratline. Many of those Nazis he helped to escape are still alive. A very active Ustasha he was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic. He was also found guilty for war crimes and was jailed for those crimes.
FILIPOVIC-MAJSTOROVIC, MIROSLAV Franciscan friar. One of the most notorious of the Ustasha leaders. Considered the chief ecclesiastical murderer of Croatia. From the Catholic monastery near Banja Luka (Bosnia). Led bands of killers throughout the Serbian villages of Drakulic, Sargovac, and Motika, killing over 2,000 Serbian men, women, and children. Promoted to Commandant of the Croatian death camp of Jasenovac in the Autumn of 1942. While addressing an armed battalion of Ustashe in the of Drakulic he murdered a Serbian Orthodox child with his own hands. His command at Jasenovac lasted only four months, but during that four months, over 40,000 Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies were tortured and executed. Fr. Filipovic was called Fra Sotona, “Brother Devil” by his victims. A Croatian doctor who resisted the Ustashe, Dr. Nikolic, a prisoner at Jasenovac spoke about his first meeting with Filipovic: “His voice had an almost feminine quality which was in contrast with his physical stature and the coarseness of his face... I was hardly seated, and as I sank into my sad thoughts, I heard the orders “Fall in—Fall in!”... An old Ilija, an Ustasha, appeared in the threshold of the hut, a revolver in one hand and in the other, a lash ... Before us passed six men, their hands tied before their backs with chains. The Ustashe had their revolvers loaded and aimed. “Fra Sotona” (Filipovic) walked over and approached our group. “Where is our new doctor?” I knew he meant me. “He is here,” someone replied. He came a little nearer, looking at me with an insolent, ironic, bizarre manner. “Come here, doctor,” he said, “to the front row, so that you will be able to see our surgery being performed without anesthetic. All our patients are quite satisfied. No sighs, nor groans can be heard. Over there are the head and neck specialists, and we have need of no more than two instruments for our operations.” “And Fra Sotona caressed his revolver with one hand and his knife with the other ... Looking at these victims who, in a few moments would be in another world, fear written on each face, no one could penetrate the depth of their moral abyss. They silently watched the gathering crowd of more pitiful people, more condemned people like themselves. Fra Filipovic approached a group of them. Two shots rang out, two victims collapsed, who began to twitch with pain, blood surging from their heads intermingling with the brain of one or the eyes of the other. “Finish off the rest!” cried Filipovic to the executioner as he put his revolver away.” — Dr. Nikola Nikolic the Concentration Camp of Jasenovac, Zagreb, Croatia 1948.
StSava - 12:06pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#70
Criminal Priests Cont.
NIKSIC, IVAN Catholic priest in Slunj. The Serbs in Slunj (on the Dalmatian Coast) were terrifed by his presence in the area. He was the principal initiator of all the killings and pillaging in the area. He was present and participated in the massacres of hundreds of Serbs by the Tucic pit where the bodies of those Serbs were thrown. Many of those Serbs were thrown in the pit alive. After the bodies were thrown in, Niksic himself threw live hand grenades in to make sure that no Serb survived. All the other Catholic priests from that area, such as those from Gracac, Ricica, and Lovinac collaborated with him. The slaughter of Serbs in the village of Stikada was organized by Niksic and carried out by the priest of Gracac. These Catholic priests called on all the Serbs from the area to come to Stikada Marsh for a conversion to Catholicism or risk their lives. When the Serbs arrived, two of the Croatian Catholic priests brought in a group of Croat killers from the neighboring villages, equipped with sledgehammers and hatchets. After tying them up, the Croats killed all the victims. When the Italian troops came to the area a short while later and permitted the exhumation of the bodies, it was established that many of the victims were buried while still alive. There was dust from the soil in the lungs as established by an Italian pathologist. Niksic was decorated by fascist Ante Pavelic.
PERIC, Dr. SRECKO Catholic priest from the Monastery of Gorica, near Livno. About twenty friars from this monastery participated with Peric in slaughtering about 5,000 Serbs from the Livno area. Dr. Peric first arrested the Serbian men from Livno and took them to the Koprivnica, between Bugojno and Rupres. He had them brutalized and executed. Some were tortured to death. He then went and arrested their mothers, wives, and children and ended their fate in the same way. The women were raped, their breasts were cut off, children were dismembered and their eyes were gouged out. The killers then cut off the heads of the children and proceeded to throw them into their mothers laps. Peric had all the Serbs from the village of Golinjevo thrown alive into the pit at the top of Tusnica Mountain. He had their wives and children thrown into the pit at Komasnica Mountain. He had the Serbian men, women, and children from the village of Gornji and Donji Rupnjani thrown into the pit in Klanacka forest. He had 200 Serbs slaughtered in the school building in Celebic. He had 300 women and children slaughtered in the village of Caprazlija. He had hundreds of slain Serbs thrown into the pit in the Dikusa forest.
In total, more than 750 Serbian Orthodox priests and 4 Bishops of the Serbian church were slaughtered in these crimes. For readers of this net to deny these crimes, and for the Croatians who have never admitted to these crimes nor paid restitution to the survivors, to see the rebirth of Nazi Fascism in Croatia is unholy. Attacking the messenger instead of confronting these crimes head on has been the work of the Holocaust deniers since these events took place.
To see the return of the checkerboard symbol under which over a million Serbs lost their lives is indeed arrogant. If the Swastika were once again used by the Germans the world would be outraged, but the Fascists in Croatia seem to be getting away with murder.
Wm. Dorich, President, SAVA, Serbian American Voters Alliance, Pittsburgh.
StSava - 12:19pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#71
Dear Mr. Rosenthal,
I wish to take this opportunity to thank you for the courage of writing the truth, a courage that a great many of your colleagues seem to be lacking.
Having had lunch this week in London with Crown Prince Aleksandar, I was made aware of his personal letter to you in appreciation for exposing the return of fascism to Croatia.
On behalf of our national membership at SAVA, I join His Highness in thanking you for stepping forward and breaking rank with those of your profession who have chosen to remain silent, many of whom actually participated in the propaganda blitz waged against my people.
In sincere appreciation, I remain, gratefully yours,
William Dorich, President, SAVA, Serbian American Voters Alliance, Pittsburgh, 15222, email@example.com
avoice - 12:24pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#72
Well, that's a pretty convincing case, Mr. Dorich. You think we ought to string up the Pope? I haven't heard any evidence that John Paul personally killed any Serbs, but what the hell, he's the chief of an organization that obviously did. By the way, I don't suppose any Serbian priests had anything to do with any retaliation against Croats or Bosnian Muslims, right? None must have or of course being the fair minded person you clearly are, you would have mentioned that at least in passing. Now I don't want you to get me wrong here, I too feel that the Serbs have gotten the worst of the propaganda war and that their (your) side of the picture hasn't received the ear it deserves. but your tendentious postings are unlikely to convince anyone of the validity of the Serbian case. The fact is that all three (or maybe more) sides of the war committed horrid atrocities mostly out of revenge for the horrid atrocities of the other sides. The effort to paint the Croats as worse murderers than the Serbs in this war is going to fall on deaf ears. The only people who will be convinced of this are Serbs maybe, and I think they already are convinced.
avoice - 04:04pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#73
Apropos Kings, princes and such, do the Serbs have a King in waiting in the wings? Are there people seriously lobbying for a return of a Yugoslav monarchy? Is there any serious possibility of reinstalling a King in Serbia? Is Crown Prince Alexandar up for it? I don't know what all the pros and cons of a monarchy are except that it's usually a good tourist attraction, but I really would be curious to know how many Serbs consider having one a good thing.
pvujin - 04:46pm Apr 24, 1997 EST (#74
Dear Avoice, let me connect this discussion to your question. Yes, there is a king of Yugoslavia, currently in exile in the United Kingdom,and he is a Serb. As a matter of fact, it was his his grandfather, or maybe great-grandfather that first became the king of Yugoslavia (former the king of Serbia) in 1918. Historically speaking, in 1918 Croats did not want to join Yugoslavia but they were banned from speaking at the Versailles convention, where due to the desire of France, the U.K., and others to contain newly-bolshevik Russia and Germany in Europe two large buffer states were created; Yugoslavia and Checzhhoslovakia. Now, you have noticed that there is a lot of hatred betwen the Serbs and the Croats, and some of it is due to the king being a Serb, and his ideals of preserving Yugoslavia. Hence, Croats felt that they were living under Serb rule, etc. whereas they could have been independent. On the other hand, some of the Croat hatred for the Serbs is due to the fact that they are a similar, but significantly smaller slavic tribe than the Serbs. So, especially in Yugoslavia an average, common, and uneducated Croat could easily be convinced that his main enemy is Serb, and must be eliminated, and hence the - Ustashi. As you have seen in the postings, the maniacal leadership of the Ustashi obviously exceeded this level of hatred, darkening what litlle might have been left of their human side. That's why it is sad to see this sentiment occuring again, when Croats are, finally, on their own. Finally, there is a faction that belives in the restitution of the monarchy. No one can tell if anyone's serious in the Balkans, especially in the politics, so I will leave your second question unanswered. Or better, let's hope that the people who are lobying for Crown Prince Alexandar's return are serious enough to pull it. That's probably the most rapid and painfull solution to the Yugoslav crisis; do you know of any western-hemisphere monarchies that are poor, with insurmountable economical problems? As for the oppinion of His Royal Majesty Crown Prince Alexander on the whole matter, I suggest you ask the King himself, at: http://www.suc.org As to your final question, here is a Serb that believes so. Sincerely, Vujin
p_makarov - 08:24pm Apr 25, 1997 EST (#75
FACTS ABOUT CIVIL WARS IN EX-YUGOSLAVIA [ Library Contents ]
THROUGH WESTERN BOOKS AND DOCUMENTS
Truth is the first casualty of any war. One can hardly find more illustrative example of this fact than the case of civil wars in ex-Yugoslavia. In trying to find an excuse to a ruthless military occupation of strategically important Balkan Peninsula the bottomless pit of Western "morality" showed its ugly face. Surpassing any Goebbelsian dream and any Orwellian nightmare the tireless, relentless propaganda left no stone unturned.
There is no truth that subservient Western media did not put on its head.
...And any-one in the West concerned about true democracy should take note.
After years of propaganda it seems impossible to peel the layers of lies and get to the Truth. Actually it is much easier than you think. For anyone interested, the BASIC FACTS of who is who in the Balkan bloody mess are EASY to find. Here you will find the main pointers. Purposely, all of the facts presented here are UNDENIABLE. And all come from the Western sources.
So how, you wonder, did the truth survive years of brutal propaganda onslaught? How did it get to see the light? This is how. There are three basic ways:
1.The facts were written (in ALL of the basic Western reference books) but WELL BEFORE the recent hostil
p_makarov - 08:31pm Apr 25, 1997 EST (#76 of 83)
FACTS ABOUT CIVIL WARS IN EX-YUGOSLAVIA
NOTE: The links preceded with the red ball are the ones that are implemented right now. Other links to come.
HISTORIA MAGISTRA VITAE EST:
Pre World War One Who are Serbs, Croats, Muslims? Are the Christian Serbs barbarians while the Muslims are tolerant?... Nothing is farther from the truth.
World War One and formation of Yugoslavia
Did triumphant Serbs occupy other South Slavs? No, they liberated them. And forgave their atrocities.
WWII. Ustashi, Cetniks, Partisans In 1941 Serbs said "NO" to Hitler's New World Order while Croats embraced it. The worst atrocities known in modern history of Europe were committed by Croat and Muslim fascists on defenseless Serb population. This, one of the most important parameter of the current tragedy is rarely mentioned in the Western press.
After WWII... Tito's Communist Yugoslavia Serbs forgave to Croats and Muslims once again. Croatian Communist Dictator Tito rules with an iron fist.
He purposely divides the largest Yugoslav nation - the Serbs into four administrative republics and two provinces. Communist artificial borders are THE CRUX of the current war. Why did the leaders of the West proclaim the Communist Party artificial borders as sacrosanct? Did they join the party?
"THE BIG POWERS" & THE CIVIL WARS IN EX-YUGOSLAVIA:
In 1990 American and German politicians push Yugoslavia off the cliff.
Yugoslavia, member state and one of the founding states of the U.N. is derecognized in record time. This was done in disregard of ALL international laws. The multinational state is butchered into 5 (five) different countries.